Since when did Google Video have pirate movies?

[Two Saks]

Sil...I agree about bootleg live recordings in regards to sound quality. But some live versions of songs are well worth having even with lower quality, especially if you really know the song or group and can pick up on the changes. The Grateful Dead are famous for this, some renditions of songs were amazing - speed up a slow song, slow down a fast one, different arrangements, sometimes it really sucked, other times it was very cool. So if you are really into a group, bootlegs with less the steller quality can still be interesting. Feel the same way about demos...I like seeing the creative process, what the original idea was and how it was transitioned into a full blown produced song. But as far as finished product, bootlegs and demos are not in the same league as well crafted studio recording. Apples and Oranges.

[vinylrake]

Sil, I wasn't asking about whether you _like_ bootleg music recordings or not, I was asking whether you felt similarly about the legality/ethicality of downloading music which was not officially sanctioned by the copyright holder as you do towards the issue of downloading anime.

From your comment it's unclear whether you meant you really have no opinion about downloading music vis-a-vis copyrights whatsoever, or since you download all your music (illegally?) anyways you are kind of biased one way or the other.

Not anything you have to answer, I was just curious. Sometimes I forget that I am ancient and most people do not seem to share my views about copyrights and music.

ps. TS, I agree about the bootleg/alternate versions/sound quality comments you made. If I don't like a song I could care less care how clean the studio recording is, if I really like a song/artist I am often interested in other ways the artist might have interpreted the material or the steps a piece of music went through along the way - even if those versions are a bit rougher. I used to find the difference in sound quality from official to unofficial/demo/bootleg unsettling but I found that now that I listen to everything on ancient tinny speakers, it all sounds pretty much the same to me.

[sillek]

But when you listen to bands that make $0 off of their records and work 40+ hours a week doing other things...their ten year old demos and live recordings are often fuzzy and impossible to hear anything.

As far as answerring the question:

1. I don't care about bootlegs and thus find it hard to form an opinion on the matter


2. Yes, I download my music anyway [I'd love to support the artists....could you send me $20,000 or so to pay for my albums ?..I don't have much ]


I was about to say that anime [can we refer to it as Initial D ? I hate anime ...... I only like ID ]was completely different than live recordings and concerts. But then I realized......Flying to Europe to go to a concert is almost as impossible as learning Japanese to understand ID [without fansubs....].

Are you against piracy ? You seemed to hint at it a bit. I suppose I am like this simply because I grew up with this. [Well, growing ]. I suppose people that grew up before piracy was big [well..I started before it was on local news television ] would find downloading things not very nice. I really have no idea how old you are so I have no way to base this theory ...

Although, I assume you've been using computers for a long time ? If Baak created a game for TRS-DOS then he's been using them ...a very long time. Have you been using them quite that long ? p;

Sorry for rambling and making no sense.. had to go to work on 0 sleep and I'm sitting here waiting for my adrenaline to drain out so I can go to sleep.

[Baak]

If Baak created a game for TRS-DOS then he's been using them ...a very long time.

Heh, well I was kinda young at the time - but yeah, it has been a very long time!

But then my very first program was written in BASIC on a PDP-11 (mainframe computer) - and man was that fun! My friend's Dad was President of a fairly large company and he let us go in on Saturday mornings with him and play on the mainframes.

The first games I ever played on a computer were a text version of Star Trek and the original Adventure game. There's just nothing quite like the soft hum of half a dozen PDP-11's in a dark, empty, air conditioned computer lab - snacking on mini powdered donuts and hunting for Klingon Flagships... It was glorious.

It's funny, I've found several versions of the text-only Star Trek game from several computer systems (you can play them on the PC), but have yet to find the precise one we played. It was the best.

I never wrote anything in Fortran or COBOL - although I always wanted to write something in SNOBOL. But the best was definitely the Apple ][ and ][+ ... light-years beyond the TRS-80.

Dang, those were the good ol' days!



Now back to the topic being discussed...

[The Elfoid_TFS]

I am against piracy (whoever asked), yeah - anime TV shows are in huge decline (in favour of movies) as it is and don't need this adding to it.

[vinylrake]

2. Yes, I download my music anyway [I'd love to support the artists....could you send me $20,000 or so to pay for my albums ?..I don't have much ]

Sorry, I don't have the cash, but I am against auto theft too, so could you send me $30,000 for that new Prius I want?

Are you against piracy ?

As a general rule, yes, though my definition of what is ethical in terms of "fair use" is probably a lot more liberal than the one that large media corporations (and some artists) hold.

I really have no idea how old you are so I have no way to base this theory ...

I don't think it's purely an age thing, I just like to think I am a fairly ethical person, but age (when one grew up) is probably one of the factors that go into shaping attitudes on a broad level.

Although, I assume you've been using computers for a long time ?

I have. I have been using computers since about 10AM this morning, and man it's been a long day.

Have you been using them quite that long ? p;

To the best of my knowledge I've never had the "Who wrote the first program" contest with Baak, though I think Baak was probably writing programs at a younger age than I. But then again he and I are not the same age, so I guess that doesn't tell you much.

Back to piracy, if you believe it's ok to take something without paying for it because you don't have enough money to purchase it, where do you draw the line? There are lots of things I would like to have that I don't have the money for. Is it with physical objects that you draw the line? e.g. it's ok to take non material things, but not actual physical property? So it would be ok to take music, video, computer programs, internet bandwidth, phone service, DSL, etc but not cars, ipods, or watches?

[sillek]

But the difference you "Physical theft" people don't seem to understand is that I can't just walk into a store and walk out with an iPod as easily as I can turn on my computer and download an album. ARe there scanning things at the doors on my computer ? A security guard standing at the door to my computer ? Cameras monitorring the computer ?

You could try the "if they were just laying there on the ground" thing but then something would be seriously wrong. No reason for physical merchandise to be laying around somewhere to take. And I'm not going hunting through the freaking garbage.

I also can't even buy a lot of these albums here in the US. They aren't available. Some of them I can buy on websites and import them, but after the import costs, the currency conversion, the shipping..I'd be spending $50-$60 on an album.

[The Elfoid_TFS]

If you'd have to pay a huge import fee, I guess its ok. Its the guys who download DVDs you can get in their city that are stupid.

[Two Saks]

Piracy is stealing. There are laws. That part is very clear. However, driving 66 mph in a 65 zone is speeding. There are laws. That part is clear.

The grey area is the repercussions of breaking the law, who it really hurts and what real damages are resulted, how much are the infractions built into the system via pricing or whatever. It gets pretty grey, when enforcement of laws are done more via the market and pricing then punitive measures. It almost seems like a tacit OK to practice piracy. I do agree with you VR (but only this one time ha ha ha) about who the piracy laws really protect, and from that point of view it could make it alot easier to burn away. In theory, I'm on the side of source, protecting the creators, the one's who put force the effort for a product that a market price should compensate. In the real world, this can seem pretty idealistic...

[The Elfoid_TFS]

I'm partially against piracy. My family's policy is this: If you would buy it anyway for the asking price, you should. I mean, Iron Maiden's EDDIE'S ARCHIVES box-set is £120. I'm a hardcore Maidenite but no way I'd pay that. I've yet to get a copy tho